Mickey's Fun Wheel

[MasterGracey]

The only thing that picture "promises" is a boardwalk around the wheel. Other than that, the sign is the only other thing that's "new" in the concept art (in regards to the queue).


I know this has been said before, too, but another thing to point out about that picture is that it's concept art. Disney isn't signing a contract no matter how many times they publish it. It's called concept art for a reason; it's a proposal.

So we should assume that concept art is never accurate, no matter how often it is used to promote a project?

I think, at a certain point, it is not a stretch to assume that the concept art is the basic plan for an area, especially when it is released to the media and used repeatedly on construction walls.

And I have no problem with them publishing concept art. It gets the public excited which is what it's made to do. I doubt most people critique it to the extremes that we do when an attraction is finished.

Yeah, it gets people excited because it creates expectations of what's to come. So is it really surprising if people are unhappy with the finished product when it doesn't live up to concept art that Disney has used over and over to promote a project?

[TP2000]

Thanks Mint! That's about what I'm seeing here tonight as well, although they've been speeding through the colors and patterns faster in the last hour or two.

Also, I don't have the caliope music playing here in my house. I'm okay with that though.

[figment1986]

[YOUTUBE]f92x1jceHdE[/YOUTUBE]

Nice... I wonder what king of stuff they plan on having the lights do... hopefully they get the black spots filled in / hooked up soon.

the LEDs make it worth the referb! (not to mention making the wheel stand out better with the nice color scheme)

[Simba]

I think, at a certain point, it is not a stretch to assume that the concept art is the basic plan for an area, especially when it is released to the media and used repeatedly on construction walls.

The problem is that I'm guessing a lot of things are in flux. Even IF they did plan, at one point, to do a more elaborate makeover of the queue, a lot of things can change - especially in the current economic climate. The project may very well have gone into budget overruns, in which case they have to prioritize.

While I would be super thrilled to have the area near the Fun Wheel look like that one piece of concept art, if it came at the expense of other things that they want to spend the money on (like the facades of the games/shops, or enhancements for WoC), then it just doesn't make sense.

I personally feel like the work they've done on the Fun Wheel changes it significantly. It has a totally different look and feel now, and watching the lighting tests they've done this past night (watching Mint's video and the mattercam), it looks fantastic.

I don't Disney releases their concept art with the goal of misleading the public or getting your hopes up and then letting you down. This practice of releasing concept art that never comes to fruition is present in nearly every facet of major construction projects ever. It happened with recent professional sports stadiums, and it's happened in theme parks for decades. I don't know why it happens so prevalently, but the practice certainly isn't unique to the DCA makeover, not by a long shot.

It could also be a case of the Disney promotional department not knowing what the financial/planning people are up to. The left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing, and they publish or promote something that the company has changed its plans on.

The lesson here is one that's proven itself out time and again, and not just by Disney. You can't trust concept art, models, sketches, etc, regardless of how often they are used or promoted.

[MasterGracey]

The problem is that I'm guessing a lot of things are in flux. Even IF they did plan, at one point, to do a more elaborate makeover of the queue, a lot of things can change - especially in the current economic climate.

The current economic climate has little, if anything, to do with it. The budget for the DCA remodel/expansion was allocated prior to the economic collapse. The idea that Disney is scaling back projects because of the economy is false, because the money has been written off as spent. The only way the economy could affect this now is the cost of labor and materials, which I imagine are at a great price right now for Disney because of the weak economy.

The lesson here is one that's proven itself out time and again, and not just by Disney. You can't trust concept art, models, sketches, etc, regardless of how often they are used or promoted.

The problem with that argument is that Disney has released concept art in the last few years that has been pretty spot-on as far as art vs. finished product is concerned.







All of these are pretty close to the finished product, no?

[Simba]

The current economic climate has little, if anything, to do with it. The budget for the DCA remodel/expansion was allocated prior to the economic collapse. The idea that Disney is scaling back projects because of the economy is false, because the money has been written off as spent. The only way the economy could affect this now is the cost of labor and materials, which I imagine are at a great price right now for Disney because of the weak economy.

Not only can construction costs balloon out of control unforseeably, but budgets can and often do get re-allocated in times of financial stress. If there were unforseen demolition issues with regard to the WoC, that money may very well have been needed for the concrete and/or landscaping work that's being done. It's very common for construction projects to face budget redistribution during the early phases of construction, especially with projects of this magnitude.

Even money that has been approved, earmarked, and the project given a green light, things may get cut back with elements that haven't yet gone into production, such as a Fun Wheel queue enhancement. It could have been seen as expendable in the event of a budget cut/redistribution.

Budgets can - and do - get cut all the time in the middle of a project. I don't know why you'd assume that Disney is any different in that regard. Just because they fully approved and budgeted that money doesn't mean that cutbacks can't happen during the preliminary construction phases.

The problem with that argument is that Disney has released concept art in the last few years that has been pretty spot-on as far as art vs. finished product is concerned.

All of these are pretty close to the finished product, no?

The existance of very accurate concept art doesn't in any way at all negate the existance of "false" concept art - we've seen a ton of it. Examples of accurate art don't disprove the existance of many forms of inaccurate art.

Heck, at one point the little area to the right of the DL main entrance, just past the bank/opera house, had a sign "Liberty Street, opening 1958", which was supposed to be another street off off Main Street, similar to WDW's Liberty Square. It never happened. Walt changed his plans and built the monorail and the Matterhorn instead.

Liberty street sign: http://www.matterhorn1959.com/blog1/esther17.jpg (from http://matterhorn1959.blogspot.com/)

It's been this way for decades, and not just from Disney.

[MasterGracey]

Not only can construction costs balloon out of control unforseeably, but budgets can and often do get re-allocated in times of financial stress. If there were unforseen demolition issues with regard to the WoC, that money may very well have been needed for the concrete and/or landscaping work that's being done. It's very common for construction projects to face budget redistribution during the early phases of construction, especially with projects of this magnitude.

Even money that has been approved, earmarked, and the project given a green light, things may get cut back with elements that haven't yet gone into production, such as a Fun Wheel queue enhancement. It could have been seen as expendable in the event of a budget cut/redistribution.

Budgets can - and do - get cut all the time in the middle of a project. I don't know why you'd assume that Disney is any different in that regard. Just because they fully approved and budgeted that money doesn't mean that cutbacks can't happen during the preliminary construction phases.

Fair enough. Just to clarify, I didn't assume that Disney was different in that regard, but I was merely arguing that your "economic" argument didn't hold water because the overall $1.1 budget for DCA had already been allocated and is, by all reports, secure from being cut back. I think the rumors and assumptions that the funds for the Fun Wheel queue and boardwalk were redistributed elsewhere are probably accurate, but its certainly an unfortunate side effect, and IMO detrimental to the overall rebranding and re-theming of Paradise Pier.

The existance of very accurate concept art doesn't in any way at all negate the existance of "false" concept art - we've seen a ton of it. Examples of accurate art don't disprove the existance of many forms of inaccurate art.

Heck, at one point the little area to the right of the DL main entrance, just past the bank/opera house, had a sign "Liberty Street, opening 1958", which was supposed to be another street off off Main Street, similar to WDW's Liberty Square. It never happened. Walt changed his plans and built the monorail and the Matterhorn instead.

Liberty street sign: http://www.matterhorn1959.com/blog1/esther17.jpg (from http://matterhorn1959.blogspot.com/)

It's been this way for decades, and not just from Disney.

The Liberty Street/Edison Square fiasco is duly noted. However, I would then argue that Disneyland of 1958 is far different than Disneyland of 2009 as far as marketing and the handling of new projects is concerned. Walt Disney was a ham when it came to talking about new projects for his park. It was clear that he got much enjoyment out of talking about project in-development, even if they were still years off, or only in the blue-sky phase. He would beam about them on his television program, they'd pop up on park maps while they were still in planning phases, and even banners would be hung up announcing their opening before ground even broke.
Disney today seems much more reluctant to show off their new products too early -- heck, we all knew about the DCA makeover for months before Disney actually spilled the beans, and even then it was rumored that Disney didn't want to make the announcement but was forced to because of the SunCal issue. And remember how long it took for Disney to actually admit that they were bringing back the Submarine Voyage?

Disney today tends to be much more careful with what they preview to its guests, when they do it, and how they do it.

[Simba]

I think the rumors and assumptions that the funds for the Fun Wheel queue and boardwalk were redistributed elsewhere are probably accurate, but its certainly an unfortunate side effect, and IMO detrimental to the overall rebranding and re-theming of Paradise Pier.

This is a perfectly acceptable way to look at it. I don't disagree one bit that it would have been fantastic to have the Pier near the games, shops, and Fun Wheel look like that concept art that had everyone so excited. I think our expectations were definitely raised when we all saw that. The thing I don't think is fair is to attribute the lack of follow through on that concept as Disney being deceptive on purpose. I also don't think they did it thinking "hey, nobody will notice the queue of the Fun Wheel is the same."

So point being, I don't disagree with your claim that it would be awesome to have that whole area done like in the concept art, but I think some of your disappointment is being unfairly thrown at Disney for it. The fact they had that queue being redone in the concept art at all tells me they liked the idea, wanted to do that, and at some point were hoping they could. Somewhere along in the development process, whether early or late, they decided they couldn't or shouldn't do it, and I'd wager that it's about economics rather than a creative decision to just leave it because they think nobody would care or notice.

However, I would then argue that Disneyland of 1958 is far different than Disneyland of 2009 as far as marketing and the handling of new projects is concerned.

Disney today tends to be much more careful with what they preview to its guests, when they do it, and how they do it.

I don't disagree, as things have clearly changed. I mean, I think if most of us "Disney fans" walked through 1955 Disneyland, after the sense of nostalgia and wonder wore off, we'd be looking at how unbelievably basic and simple most of the park was. Aside from Main Street, there was very little of note architecturally or technology wise to really grab our attention. When compared to the advances that came after the 50s/60s with attractions like Haunted Mansion and Pirates, and the architectural advances made on those attractions, New Orleans Square, etc, the original 50's Disneyland was almost pathetic looking in many parts.

But I digress... with regard to the way Disney markets new and upcoming ideas, you're right, they're much more careful and guarded with what they release. However, I still see it often that concepts and ideas that make their way to the public via things like the Blue Sky Cellar, that there is much that changes or doesn't appear even in modern Disney parks. One of the more notable things I can remember is Animal Kingdom's "Beastly Kingdom" that was seemingly part of the plan all along in nearly all concept art, but was eventually left off, despite the fact that occasional references to it remained in the AK logo (Animal Kingdom Logo with Dragon), and even the "monster rock" that would breathe fire towards the boats that circled the river.

The job of any concept art preview for ANY major construction project is to hype something. In that process, the occasional drawback is that things that were once promoted end up getting cut, and people end up disappointed. Yes, perhaps the marketing people are partly to blame for that, but I think sometimes it's an honest mistake, where a case of budgets or reallocations end up causing something that was initially being planned or hoped for ends up having to be cut.

In some ways, Disney probably just isn't vigilant enough. Really, they should be smarter when it comes to what they do release (like in the Blue Sky Cellar), because they have to know that people like us will scrutinize every detail. The general public will most likely never notice the difference when it comes to something like a queue that didn't get built, but we do.

I guess the point I'm trying to make here is that, yes, Disney is partially at fault for letting us believe that we might get an exciting new queue for the Fun Wheel, but at the same time, the practice of releasing concepts that are not 100% set in stone is nothing new nor exclusive to Disney, and I do not think they do it with any intended deception or malice.

And really, in the end, the Fun Wheel queue re-do isn't the most necessary thing on the Pier. If the Swings and shops get redone like we're all expecting, that will go a lot further in giving the Pier a face lift than will the Fun Wheel queue area. Hopefully down the line, perhaps in a "phase 2", they will have the opportunity to fix the Screamin queue and load building, the Fun Wheel queue, and the other details around the Pier like the railings and lamp posts.

[MasterGracey]

This is a perfectly acceptable way to look at it. I don't disagree one bit that it would have been fantastic to have the Pier near the games, shops, and Fun Wheel look like that concept art that had everyone so excited. I think our expectations were definitely raised when we all saw that. The thing I don't think is fair is to attribute the lack of follow through on that concept as Disney being deceptive on purpose. I also don't think they did it thinking "hey, nobody will notice the queue of the Fun Wheel is the same."

No, they probably didn't do it to be deceptive, but I'm sure that when it came time to decide what to cut, it was decided that "Hey, nobody will notice the queue of the Fun Wheel is the same."

So point being, I don't disagree with your claim that it would be awesome to have that whole area done like in the concept art, but I think some of your disappointment is being unfairly thrown at Disney for it. The fact they had that queue being redone in the concept art at all tells me they liked the idea, wanted to do that, and at some point were hoping they could. Somewhere along in the development process, whether early or late, they decided they couldn't or shouldn't do it, and I'd wager that it's about economics rather than a creative decision to just leave it because they think nobody would care or notice.

I hardly think that my disappointment unfairly being directed at Disney. It's completely fair. They're the ones controlling their product, they're the ones controlling how they're using the art, they're the ones controlling the information flow.

The proper thing to do would have been to immediately stop putting emphasis on the Fun Wheel queue and boardwalk, for example: don't put the painting all over the construction walls, don't directly reference it with signage in the Blue Sky Cellar. I mean, I don't think it's a stretch to assume that when they put up the decorations on the construction walls, they knew exactly what they were going to build. So why continue to tease us with the single most evocative and appealing piece of Paradise Pier remodel art if it wasn't going to be the basis for what was being built?

Maybe that was just a careless mistake, sure, but really, not only Disney fans are paying attention to the construction walls anymore. The DCA walls and their bright graphics are getting the attention of ALL park guests. Disney needs to watch what they're advertising.

And really, in the end, the Fun Wheel queue re-do isn't the most necessary thing on the Pier. If the Swings and shops get redone like we're all expecting, that will go a lot further in giving the Pier a face lift than will the Fun Wheel queue area. Hopefully down the line, perhaps in a "phase 2", they will have the opportunity to fix the Screamin queue and load building, the Fun Wheel queue, and the other details around the Pier like the railings and lamp posts.

Sure, the Fun Wheel queue isn't an particularly important project in and of itself. But in the larger Paradise Pier theming, why isn't it? Without carrying the Victorian theming completely throughout the Pier, Disney is running the risk of creating a disjointed experience that feels unfinished. This sort of issue was one of DCA's many problems when it opened in 2001, and it's a current issue with Tomorrowland.

Disney needs to fix the way the public perceives DCA. That can only be accomplished by truly recreating the park. Only rebranding and retheming parts of areas like what is being done in Paradise Pier isn't going to fix anything. It has the potential to continue to hurt the park. This remodel needs to be all-encompassing... and I continue to focus so much on the Fun Wheel because it's a high-visibility project and the ferris wheel is a major part of Paradise Pier. If they're willing to drastically cut corners on projects like this, whats to stop them from downgrading the Swings? Or the Beer Garden Complex? Or Goofy's Sky Skool? Or Buena Vista Street?

It can become a vicious cycle, and I don't mean to sound like Chicken Little here... but this isn't really the first time we've seen something like this -- Tomorrowland '98 is probably the best example.



In any case, great debate. I appreciate your well thought out posts.

[tcsnwhite]

I dont see how black and dark red match the new Games of the Boardwalk or Midway Mania facades. The black and red match Mickey Mouse, not the Pier.
If they wanted to keep things color-matchy, then they should have left it as-is -- there is still a whole lot of that lovely teal paint all over the Pier.

The colors look fine. The red ties into a lot of the red that the rest of the pier (the newer portions have), and the colors bring necessary color to the wheel itself. Not to mention the inner supports and whatnot that are pretty much exposed from the side look much better black and are more well hidden.

I'm not saying the Mickey face looks bad. It looks good. But I don't believe its either an improvement or a downgrade. The wheel would have looked just as bright and just as vibrant if it got a fresh coat of paint in its original colors.

Look at the pictures of the first "Sun Wheel" and tell me that again.

An appropriate queue would have helped establish the wheel with a stronger theme and identity on Paradise Pier. The queue is the first and last thing people see when they begin their Fun Wheel experience. Their first and last impression is going to continue to be a charmless, cold, concrete pit.

I think for the average Disney visitor (the mass public - and not hardcore Disney fans)...the impression being made is really going to be made by the attraction itself. People are going to remember riding a Disney themed ferris wheel over a beautiful bay. I highly doubt anyone is going to go home and talk about that unthemed concrete pit of a queue they waited in for the ferris wheel.

I don't have my own vision of what the Fun Wheel should be. I have the vision Disney laid out in the Blue Sky Cellar and has repeatedly promoted with the use of this piece of concept art (which was released to the media, used in the cellar, and featured on construction walls)

I think you and a lot of folks need to remember that concept art is not always the final rendering of what something is going to actually look like. And I see you've already had that debate. And true, sometimes it does end up happening like the art...many times it does not.
I think Disney fans like ourselves should really be the ones to know better in that concept art is just that - a rendering to usually "sell" the project, is a "concept", and will usually change to some degree in the final product.

And while I love that art for the pier, and what to see a lot of that...we are getting quite a bit that is there.
A lot of the little details can always be added later...not to mention the pier itself is in a state of working progress. Much of that could come in the final stages as the finishing touches.
And as for the covered queue....uh, yeah, I really don't see a covered queue there. Maybe a more embellished marque, but highly themed queue...?
Not to mention the little boardwalk would have been nice, but what does that have to do with waiting in line?

Your photos of generic boardwalks are irrelevant. We're talking about a Disney theme park. Do you really think Marceline's main street looked like it does at Disneyland? Of course not. It's a hyper-real, embellished, idealized version.

No, they're not irrelevant. They show that a ferris wheel is pretty much a ferris wheel...and the DCA one is damn huge and now more colorfully themed...hyper-real, embellished and idealized.

The ferris wheel was an icon of DCA before Mickey took over. Now it is an icon of the park featuring an icon of the Disney brand.
"It's just a ferris wheel." Is that similar to "If it's good enough for Six Flags..."?
No offense, but really, why such complacency? You're paying a premium for a premium experience. You should be expecting the best. And yet, you settle for "good enough."

Has it crossed your mind that maybe some folks actually like what they see? That maybe they simply disagree with you, which doesn't always mean they are some sort of Disney apologist or someone who thinks it is just "good enough"?
See, this is the BIG issue I have with some parts of Disney fandom. People have to be divided into groups and god forbid you like something that you're really not supposed to, or have a different view...then you get put in the "just good enough"/Six Flags/DoM types of groups.... It is getting old, and I've had enough of it.

Ok, for you, you obviously don't think it is enough, and that the queue is really the part that bothers you. Totally fine, and I agree on the queue part, which is what this whole tiny little thing is really about. Yes, the queue needs further work. end of story.

So is the Wheel makeover simply to meet the needs of World of Color? Or is the Fun Wheel part of the larger Paradise Pier makeover?

What is the actual purpose of this makeover?

Oh boo boo, do you really need someone to answer that question for you?