Disney's 2004 Annual Report - Attendance at Disneyland "remained flat"

[hippie1kenobi]

The Company Financial Report doesn't mention the AB numbers. Nor does the quote about Braverman's 7 million projected attendance mention the AB numbers. You've pulled a straw man. You're making an argument that doesn't exist.

Uh, he was responding to Darkbeer, who did mention those things and brought up the issue of whether or not the AB numbers were accurate.

[woody]

Uh, he was responding to Darkbeer, who did mention those things and brought up the issue of whether or not the AB numbers were accurate.

Okay, my mistake, but the AB numbers should not be relied upon if the company gives it's statement, which I presume to be correct from Braverman and the Annual Report.

[WrongWay]

revenue is more important than attendance,you could have 4 billion ppl in your parks,but if they dotn buy stuff it does you no good.If the revenue increased I dont think Disney is having a problem with DLRs performance this year.

Nemo,
You may want to get some consistancy with your arguments.

A year ago, AB was posting 12% increase in attendance at DCA, but the company was posting flat revenue and profit.

ALL you could talk about was attendance increase... Attendance increase... Attendance increase....

Anyone that mentioned free tickets and heavy promotions and lack of revenue increase was an idiot that should just shut up and go away.

Suddenly, you do a 180 flip.... Attendance isn't inportant. It is all about the revenue.

So, the 12% increase in attendance in 2003 on flat revenue...... did that do them "no good" as I was claiming in the knoxk down/drag outs of a year ago?!?!?!?!

Remember? I was saying things like "Who cares if they increased attendance 600,000 if all those visitors were there on free tickets"? Oh no, Oh No!!!!! 600,000 attendance increase on flat revenue was 100% proof DCA is a great park and getting better! That was your mantra a year ago!

Nice to have you on the correct side of the argument for a change.... Too bad you're only going to be here until the next time DCA reports an attendance increase on flat revenue!


For years the critics have been calling for better maintenance and hogher priced AP! We were idiots. Now we're getting both.... The smae people that called us idiots are LOVING the changes of better maintenance and higher priced APs, but somehow us critics that have been wanting this all along, are still idiots that need to shut up and go away.

I don't get it!

[woody]

Can somebody provide the quote where Marcie said said attendence at the resort was up? I'm not saying she did or did not, just wondering if somebody could provide the actual quote we are discussing here.

I know Driftwood said that DCA was slightly up and DL slightly down at one point, which goes with what the annual report said...don't recal if he was discussing fiscal year or calendar year.

I found the quote. I made a mistake by saying Marcie may have implied DLR attendance was up. She didn't.

"Oh yes, let us wait for the highly "in"accurate AB numbers to prove that DCA sucked again this year. Just say it Darkbeer. That is what you want to see in the AB numbers.

It isn't a secret that DLR parks were soft during the summer season, although DCA held its own pretty well throughout the 4th quarter.

The current 1st quarter domestic and international atendance is up, but local attendance is down (due to a lack of discounting at the gate).

But the bottomline, which I pointed out already once before, DLR met its budget plan for Fiscal Year 04 and that is all that matters. And so far in the 1st quarter of 05 Guest spending is strong and per caps are up."

[WrongWay]

[regarding flat attendnace, higher revenue]
That's actually a very good way to go. Better for everyone. Obviously, what happened is that fewer (or at least the same) people went, but those that did, spent more.

So why is this?

Hmmm... I don't know... MAYBE 50% increase in the cost of Annual Passes?

PAP up from $225 to $330 (up 47%)
DAP up from $140 to $209 (up 50%)
SoCal up from $100 to $150 (up 50%)

Oh no, that can't be it. A year ago you were saying that gate revenue was irrelivant and that the real revenue change came from shops....

Hmmm. 600,000 APs paying an exta $70 each is $42 million, or about half the DLR revenue increase.

$3 had also been added to the 1-day. 4 million of those at $53 would only be $12 million, or abut 28% as much as the AP increase generates.

Again, those of us calling for AP price increases were idiots, but when DL did it, the same people that had been calling us idiot simply love the results.

[Nemo88]

Nemo,
You may want to get some consistancy with your arguments.

A year ago, AB was posting 12% increase in attendance at DCA, but the company was posting flat revenue and profit.

ALL you could talk about was attendance increase... Attendance increase... Attendance increase....

Anyone that mentioned free tickets and heavy promotions and lack of revenue increase was an idiot that should just shut up and go away.

Suddenly, you do a 180 flip.... Attendance isn't inportant. It is all about the revenue.

So, the 12% increase in attendance in 2003 on flat revenue...... did that do them "no good" as I was claiming in the knoxk down/drag outs of a year ago?!?!?!?!

Remember? I was saying things like "Who cares if they increased attendance 600,000 if all those visitors were there on free tickets"? Oh no, Oh No!!!!! 600,000 attendance increase on flat revenue was 100% proof DCA is a great park and getting better! That was your mantra a year ago!

Nice to have you on the correct side of the argument for a change.... Too bad you're only going to be here until the next time DCA reports an attendance increase on flat revenue!


For years the critics have been calling for better maintenance and hogher priced AP! We were idiots. Now we're getting both.... The smae people that called us idiots are LOVING the changes of better maintenance and higher priced APs, but somehow us critics that have been wanting this all along, are still idiots that need to shut up and go away.

I don't get it!

Wrongway,
the attendance numbers are bragging rights,thats about it,the AB numbers are not that accurate,even when Disneys numbers are good,but its all we have to go by,so when DCA/DL do well I like to gloat Its more of a game to me,just to see if my parks will beat the comeption,thats all....but I know these numbers are not the most accurate.

now,for Disney,revenue IS more important,theyd much rather have less people and more money coming in,its just better business.Which is why Ouimet is trying to raise the price of APs and get more in park spending from each guest.

[Instidude]

Flat Attendance is a very vague use of terminology to be arguing about. Discussing, sure, arguing, no.

Flat attendance could mean anything from 0% change to +/- 3%, or even more. Without the context of what "flat" means, one is arguing over a meaningless statement.

These reports are required to have factual information, but the only specifics are required in the hard numbers. There is no definition of what I can find defined as "flat". Heck, in my job, I consider +/- 10% in some measurements as "flat" or no significant change.

[woody]

Flat could mean slightly worse or better. It's a bit of a cover-up if its actually worse.

[WrongWay]

Wrongway,
the attendance numbers are bragging rights,thats about it,

Oh no you don't! Last year, they were PROOF that DCA is great and getting better.

when DCA/DL do well I like to gloat Its more of a game to me,just to see if my parks will beat the comeption,thats all....but I know these numbers are not the most accurate.

So, you lost the game this year?

Last year we were pointing on "DCA free" promotions, and you simply couldn't (or wouldn't) understand how promotions would affect attendance..... DCA is up PROVES it is gettin better.....

Now, Universal is up.... yeah, but that is because of their buy a day get a year...

As I said, you need to get some consistancy!

now,for Disney,revenue IS more important,theyd much rather have less people and more money coming in,its just better business.Which is why Ouimet is trying to raise the price of APs and get more in park spending from each guest.

BUT when I was saying this last year, and pointing out that dispite 13% increase in attendance at DCA, that HAD NOT increased revenue, I was an idiot that needed to shut up and go away because all you cared about was attendance and how it proved DCA was such a great park.


Here's the difference between you and I. If something is good, I'll say it is good.... Example. I admitted I was wrong when I predicted DCA would have flat to down attendance without 2-for-1 in the fall. I was wrong and DCA seemed to do a good job holding attendance despite lack of heavy promotions.

You, spin EVERYTHING your way. Attendnace is up, but revenue is flat, that is GREAT becuase only attendance counts. A year later, attendnace is fairly flat, but revenue is up, that is GREAT because only revenue counts.

Pick a position and stick with it!!!!!

[hippie1kenobi]

Again, those of us calling for AP price increases were idiots, but when DL did it, the same people that had been calling us idiot simply love the results.

WrongWay, unless you want to actually find posts where people were calling you an idiot and report those to the staff to take care of, we ask that you stop with types of comments at the end of your posts.