Negativity toward Disney

[cinder]

Fine, I accept that you like the park.

However, even you can't deny the park has failed to meet projected attendance, and has had to use some SERIOUS discounts to get the attendance it does have.

(Yes, yes.... attendance is higher than USH, but I wonder what USH's attendance would be if it were 100 yards from Disneyland and the vast majority of people visiting Disneyland could get in for free! Way, way, way higher than DCA's is my guess.)

The discussion should not be "I like it/Well I don't". The discussion should be about why the park has had trouble pulling the expected attendance. Personally, I think the root problem is the reality theme that quickly dispells the small bits of magic that some of the attractions managed to brew up.

I think Disney quickly realized exactly the same thing, which is why everything they've done since opening has been a move away from the original reality theme.

I can't beleive that 5 years later, it is so controversial to say that the mundane relaity theme was DCA's problem.



Look it up in the dictionary. Appologist is a defender, not someone that says "Sorry".




And why has a thread about negativity toward Disney migrated into a discussion on DCA? Duh. DCA is by far the most negative thing Disney has done in its 75+ year history.

Discussing "negativity" without discussing DCA would be like discussing Sept 11th terror attacks and not mentioning the World Trade Center.... Sure, there are other negative things Disney has done, but DCA is the most obvious target of negativity.

I had respected and agreed with everything you were posting, until you got back to the redundancy of using your catch phrases of mundane and what not. In the future, do not "Duh" me. It's disrespectful, and that is just your opinion, once again. Thank you.

[jonvn]

How did this turn into a discussion based solely on DCA, once again?

Because that's all some people know how to do. They can easily be negative about Disney best by going through tried and true DCA slams. Every single topic some people start up ore engage in becomes all about DCA, as if there is nothing else in Disney that is either good OR bad. It's all they have to say, and they say it over and over again on every single topic. In as nasty a way as possible, too.

[jonvn]

WrongWay can't say DCA sucks and that it's fans wont admit it

Actually, no one really cares that he says it sucks all the time, even if it is a tiresome broken record.

The comments about the fans or anyone who dare disagree with him? Well, that's another matter. Those are insulting comments that cause people to discount his ideas and his comments in general.

[PumpkinKingJack]

okay well steering away from the mudslinging and junk,
why dont we start by making a list of The Positive attributes of DLR that are fact not opinion and not bring in any sass form of negativity?

[jonvn]

The discussion should not be "I like it/Well I don't". The discussion should be about why the park has had trouble pulling the expected attendance. Personally, I think the root problem is the reality theme that quickly dispells the small bits of magic that some of the attractions managed to brew up.

If you want a discussion, you have to be able to accept opinions other than your own as valid, and not that yours alone are "factual." Until you do that, your requests for discussion on Disney subject matter comes across as quite hollow, and instead appear as just a platform to bellow your pronouncements from on high. Your incorrect pronouncements based on false premise.

[Nemo88]

So many people talk about how DCA is not a good park because it lacks "magic","too real" they say.Ive seen alot of interviews etc with Walt,and I dont ever remember him mentioning all this "magic" stuff.Every time I saw him talk on tv about Disneyland,it was all about putting people in adventures etc...it seems to me,that all this "magic,googly ga ga" stuff came about in the last decade or so,Walt didnt seem to harp on that mushy stuff...I could be wrong,but thats what I see.

all you have to do is compare the fireworks show during Walts time,to the fireworks we got now,and you will see that Disneyland in general has shifted from "Idealistic Americana" to "Beleive in magic".

[cinder]

I believe that Walt created it for a reason, just like Nemo said. I believe the "magic" comes from within. Which means, he did something right with Disneyland. Having said that, I see both points...DCA does not give me that "magic" feeling, however, it was never intended to do that or be Disneyland.

[WrongWay]

Actually, we are here for a discussion. But a discussion does not involve one person or set of people calling others "apologists," "pollyannas," or that their opinions are "putting a pig in a dress."

You are correct. I'm sorry. While I don't use the term "apologist" as an insult, simply as a term direct at those that defend the place, I know that those I direct it at do consider it an insult, and therefore I will stop using it.

It is the job of marketing to put a pig in a dress. That comment was not directed at any given person, simply an answer to Cinder's question on why I get "controversial". If I perceive someone is trying to put a pig in a dress, then I get very.... how shall I put it.... agrivated.


Polyanna, while not a direct insult, is dismissive. I'll stop using that term as well.

[jonvn]

it seems to me,that all this "magic,googly ga ga" stuff came about in the last decade or so,

That's exactly right, Nemo. It's a marketing gimick that is relatively recent in origin. Originally, the hallmark of Disneyland was that it was in fact, too real. That it emulated various locales with such great realism, such that it put you in a different atmosphere, as if you were in a movie (built by movie people, go figure).

In recent times, though, this idea has gone by the wayside. It's been replaced by the easier "magic" concept that historically was not what Disney theme parks were about. You can look to Epcot's World Showcase to see what it used to be like, which are attempts to recreate certain locales around the world in as faithful and realistic manner as possible, albeit a romanticized version for a theme park.

That is what the Disney parks were about for many many years. All this magic junk has led to a real watering down of things at the park, leading to Pooh in the Frontier, and a Tomorrowland that totally lacks focus or meaning.

[cinder]

Wow. Great post. Really food for thought, and I agree with you.