Negativity toward Disney

[ocnative1964]

Excuse me. Do you know how wickedly awesome it would be to see a pig in a dress? Man, I would totally take snapshots.

here you go

[dlfreak]

Petunia rocks!

[ocnative1964]

Wrongway,its not a discussion when the only opinion you are willing to accept as "truth" is your own.You make it sound as if people who enjoy DCA are dellusional and dont want to "admit" that DCA sucks.Maybe some people ACTUALLY feel the park is cool? I know its hard to fathom,but step back and think bout it for a second.

Im not here to pretend DCA is something its not,my views on DCA is what I see,nothing more,nothing less.I am not trying to "dress a pig in a dress" as you call it...and for the record,there is no such thing as a DCA apologist,thats because DCA has nothing to apologize for,its a good park.

its his job to convince you and your job to convince him... either of you may ever do that, if so this will go on until one of you crys uncle and leaves!!!

[jonvn]

What of TL 1967 drove attendance for 25 years?

It was the entire area. It was none of the individual items you mention, nor was it the drinking fountain next to Tomorrowland Terrace, nor the third asparagus fern on the right as you entered the area.

TL was always the most crowded area in the park, day and night. When other areas of the park would empty out, it would remain the most crowded. If you actually went often during the years I mentioned, you would have seen this personally.

But lets assume that what I said is incorrect. Your statement that TL67 was a "financial disaster" is a statement with absolutely no backing to it. There is no evidence that it was a financial disaster (chiefly because it wasn't one). Also, there is no evidence it did not do well, there is no evidence that it did anything but be a successful part of the park for decades.

Basically, it's a statement that is false on its face, based on no real information whatsoever.

I dont' see ANYTHING in TL '67 that drove attendance the way pirates or mansion or Space Mt or Splash or Fantasyland or ToonTown drives attenndace.

That would be because you weren't there, and have no idea what went on in the park on a continual basis over the years. I was, and when Haunted Mansion and POTC were walk on dead at night, Tomorrowland was still very busy. The rides still had long lines, and entertainment was going full blast.

Your mentioning of Toontown is a giveaway towards not having a full realization that the history of the park goes back before 1995. It does.

It seems you intentionally ignored my point of being cheap to operate and maintain.

Yes, because it is besides the point. It is not because rides are just "cheap to run" that allows them to live. The popularity of such rides keeps them running. The motor boat cruise was very cheap to run, as well. It no longer operates because it was not a popular attraction.

The Bears were a fantasy based attraction, expensive to run, and it was removed because it too was no longer popular.

So your statement really is not the entire picture at all.

Some rides get some tweaks to up their popularity.

No. Not "some" rides. ALL rides. There are perhaps one or two rides in the park that have never changed (if you ignore the removal of charges when the park removed the coupon system). Other than that, rides all over the park, of all types, have been modified or replaced in their entirety no matter what the subject matter is.

So again, not the full picture.

The more fantasy, exotic, imaginative, the less likely it is going to need to be gutted and rebuilt.

Again, completely false, and you need look no further than Fantasyland for that. It was completely gutted and rebuilt in the 1980s. Country Bear Jamboree? Gutted. Swiss Family Treehouse? Same. Your statement is simply not borne out by the history of the park.

And Disney is working as fast as money will allow to change that.

Again, a simple survey of what Disney properties there are and what they are doing shows that this statement is again plainly false. They are not removing or changing anything in WOrld Showcase as you describe, nor in Animal Kingdom, nor in other parts of the corporation.

They have done a lot of this to Disneyland over the last few years, coincidentally during the same time you claim that Disney has lost its "magic."

What I do believe is that triggering the imagination creates happy, child-like thoughts, in people of all ages. And that makes people feel good, and we call that Disney magic.

That is called "being entertained." It is what the company is about. Entertaining people. "Disney Magic" is a marketing slogan invented by the Disney company to sell you more of their product.

And as far as your "Eisner doesn't get it" concepts, you seem to be missing an enormously large point. During the times that you claim in the last few years that Disney parks have "lost their magic" I am stating that they are in fact dropping the things that made them popular in the first place (reality based entertainments in their parks that speak to the public about the public) and have replaced them with a lot of froofy fantasy based attractions which speak to the public not about themselves, but solely about Disney.

You claim that this is what you want to see more of, yet while they have done this you say they are not doing what they used to.

I, too, am saying they are not doing what they used to. The only difference is that what you are saying they used to do is not what they used to do. They weren't all fantasy based. They WERE based on various real experiences of the public. That is what it was, and it was the specific and stated goal that it be done that way.

What seems obvious to me is that you would prefer that they did things the way they used to. Me too. But they are not. They will likely continue to dumb down their parks for people who think they want more "fantasy," when that's not what has always been the cornerstone of Disney theme park popularity. Realism and virtual reality have been. Until Disney manages to get ahold of itself and stop this slide into what you claim you want (although as I said, your other comments indicate it's not really what you want) then their parks will continue to be less unique and interesting.

[cinder]

I agree with Wrongway on this.

To a certain extent, the customer is RIGHT. They will enjoy the park in their own way.

The customer hasn't found DCA enticing. You can't blame the customer for not liking the mistake. Disney messed up badly.

See, while everyone was doing so well discussing this, you miss the ball again. The customer is RIGHT, entirely correct. The DISNEY DORK is not always right, since they are critical critical critical.

You can't say the visitor doesn't find DCA enticing. What you CAN say is that some people don't find DCA enticing. Which is true for EVERYTHING IN LIFE.

[jonvn]

Honestly, the customer is NOT always right. The customer is often completely wrong.

Most people don't really even know what they want or not. Or what the general public wants. It's not about giving people just want they want. It's being able to perceive a need and fill that need whether people are aware of it or not.

[TowerFreak99]

I love disneyland it the greatest place.It so fun to go to if you need some place to go to be happy and be with friend

[jonvn]

I agree completely. Go and have a good time. That's all it is there for.

And if you can't, if you go and you have to come back saying how much it "sucks," then my suggestion is to occupy your time with something you do find enjoyable.

Thing is some people want to discuss their vision as to why something sucks, and that's fine. But it is all simply opinion.

I pretty much try to put out things that are facts as I know them. When i see someone dispensing rubbish as if it were the truth (as seen on a couple of other sites) I tend to get involved and start trying to put right to those sorts of statemetns.

That's all there is to it. Otherwise, people's opinions are their opinions.

[dlfreak]

Here is a picture of a burrito being prepared for myself.

My burritos are usually meat wrapped in tortilla not tamales wrapped in stainless steal buckets.

[MattO]

My burritos are usually meat wrapped in tortilla not tamales wrapped in stainless steal buckets.

Do you use a rascal like me?