Healthcare

[club33az]

It's useless..........
They don't tax me more for a Big Mac or a Coke now. As a matter of fact, in Arizona, there are no taxes on food from the grocery store. They don't dictate that someone can't eat donuts now. They don't do any of that.

And if you'd read what I said, you'd know I think the tax on cigarettes is very wrong and should be stopped. Or at the very least, the taxes should go towards helping those affected by smoking. Here in Arizona, they enacted a tax on cigarettes a couple years ago to pay for day care for poor children. What the hell does that have to do with smoking? Especially when the Democrat proposing the bill stated that they went after smokers for this because they were an easy target to tax. Never mind that taxes on smoking affects the very poor they're trying to help the most. Rich people don't smoke.

[Tiggerlives]

That's about as condescending a post as I've ever seen.

Good. I'm absolutely sick of snide posts that offer nothing to the debate. Sorry, what, excactly did coming on the board to announce he had a cold and wanted someone to pay for his medicine add to the debate? What does comparing a national health care plan with a national furniture initiative add to the debate? But I guess neither of those posts (both not by him) are condescending or snarky in the least?

Who's real world? Yours?

The real world when medicine actually has a cost attached to it? Do you think any 16 year old is worldly enough to have an opinion based on experience regarding health care?

And all of a sudden I'M the bad guy??? I have to fight to keep what I've earned because someone else has less than me? That's Communism. Flat out. Wait -- why shouldn't I get more? There's a lot of people who have more than I do. It's not fair that they have more and I have less.

And this is what I feel the debate, at its heart, comes down to. People can post all they want about being good people and how their moral compasses aren't always posted towards themselves. But when push comes to shove, it's always 'why should I have less than what I already have?' Classic battle of haves vs. have nots with the haves continuing their effort to hoard what they have. Which, makes sense since that's pretty much they way the world has worked since the dawn of time and we're psychologically drawn to do so.

I guess, at some point, one would hope we evolve to realize we are a global society. And the haves would not exist were it not for those without.

[Mortimer]

That's about as condescending a post as I've ever seen.
Good. I'm absolutely sick of snide posts that offer nothing to the debate. Sorry, what, excactly did coming on the board to announce he had a cold and wanted someone to pay for his medicine add to the debate? What does comparing a national health care plan with a national furniture initiative add to the debate?

You guys are considered MI veterans. You know the rules, and you know to discuss the topic and not about each other. blah, blah, blah....

If you can't debate respectfully, we will be shutting this down.

Thanks guys, (in advance).

[Tiggerlives]

It's useless..........

Sorry, because I examine the loaded questions you ask and find answers that you don't like? Again, what's the difference under the current health care system vs. any future health care plans? There isn't any. You know that. But instead you want to focus on the fact that they would be able to tax you for unhealthy eating...which THEY CAN, AND DO, DO NOW! So, in terms of an adverse affect of a new plan...that wouldn't be one of them.

[Tiggerlives]

Sorry Mort. I'll just vacate the topic. It literally makes my skin boil to read people trivialize such a major issue for so many.

[club33az]

And this is what I feel the debate, at its heart, comes down to. People can post all they want about being good people and how their moral compasses aren't always posted towards themselves. But when push comes to shove, it's always 'why should I have less than what I already have?' Classic battle of haves vs. have nots with the haves continuing their effort to hoard what they have. Which, makes sense since that's pretty much they way the world has worked since the dawn of time and we're psychologically drawn to do so.

I guess, at some point, one would hope we evolve to realize we are a global society. And the haves would not exist were it not for those without.

Yeah, you're evolved. The fact that you have MS doesn't enter into it, does it? It's only because you're evolved and the rest of us cavemen just can't fathom your humanity. Please......

The real world when medicine actually has a cost attached to it? Do you think any 16 year old is worldly enough to have an opinion based on experience regarding health care?

So, now he can't have an opinion because he's 16 years old? Believe me, this affects him a hell of a lot more than it does you and me. His generation will have to live with this debacle Obama will be leaving him.

[refurbmike]

For the life of me, I will never understand how anyone can argue healthcare isn't part of life AND/OR the persuit of happiness.

We do have rights. But we must maintain our own rights. If I kill myself, is that society's fault for not protecting my right to live? I have the right to pursue happiness, if I want it. I must do the work and ensure it for myself. I can't expect it to be handed to me.

[SNJ]

You believe in abortion? ( I am in no way directing this at anyone here!)
You pay for it. I will not.

Then help take care of the kid. Family x can't afford to raise a child, it's well early enough for an abortion. Yet the family has to keep the kid. You saved the kids life, now help pay for food. Help pay for health. Help for school. Help out. Donate monthy, yes? I mean, it's not your kid, but you're willing to tell them they should keep it. Have some more responsibility in the kids life then.

[SNJ]

I have a cold right now. Who wants to buy me medicine because I don't want to.

My teenage friend just had a child, buy it food.

[Lacrosse Boy]

Sorry, because I examine the loaded questions you ask and find answers that you don't like? Again, what's the difference under the current health care system vs. any future health care plans? There isn't any. You know that. But instead you want to focus on the fact that they would be able to tax you for unhealthy eating...which THEY CAN, AND DO, DO NOW! So, in terms of an adverse affect of a new plan...that wouldn't be one of them.

You don't uproot a system that works well for the vast majority. You just don't. You fix the problem for those that the system isn't working for. Which is 4% of Americans.

Additionally, I have heard absolutely nothing about common sense. I like common sense solutions. Common sense solves our problems. High-fallutin ideas which undermine our nation's foundation are not common sense.

Sorry Mort. I'll just vacate the topic. It literally makes my skin boil to read people trivialize such a major issue for so many.

Literally? Or figuratively? (Sorry, had to point this out, I get interesting images in my head when people say literally and mean figuatively)

Then help take care of the kid. Family x can't afford to raise a child, it's well early enough for an abortion. Yet the family has to keep the kid. You saved the kids life, now help pay for food. Help pay for health. Help for school. Help out. Donate monthy, yes? I mean, it's not your kid, but you're willing to tell them they should keep it. Have some more responsibility in the kids life then.

Very utilitarian. Not humanitarian. A child is the responsibility of its parents, not greater society. If your parents were poor, would you have thought it was a better idea to abort you? Just wondering.

I value every piece of creation. I go on mission trips and do what I can to give a hand up to those in need. But I simply refuse to buy in to the idea that you can twist the arms of the rest of society who won't. You just don't do that. Just as Christ never forced anyone into Christianity ("Come follow me" or "I'll make you a fisher of men"), I am against anyone doing something against their will, provided it is lawful and peaceable.

Human life is human life. Period. This is why I am active in the Church and Missions; I want to see all creation succeed. But I'm also cognizant of reality, not abstract unrealistic idealism. I guarantee that the work being done by missionaries, social workers, etc is far greater than anything the government can accomplish. I've seen the differences first-hand. It's like night-and-day.