Bin Laden Dead!

[refurbmike]

Cinder, you make excellent points.

Regarding cruelty, I do agree he 'deserves' no courtesies. And that is exactly why we should've extended him some. We need to be better than him.

I agree, he deserved everything he got. He actually deserved a heck of a lot more. But we need to be just in how it's served. We need to make sure that we're not just being the big kid, but actually being the adult.

As for returning him back safely, I really don't know if it was possible. I believe this raid could've gone off secretly and him returned without anybody knowing it.

I guess I compare this event to Sadam Hussein's capture. Sadam was captured, secretly moved to a hidden location, tried, and hung. It was transparent and perfectly executed. Osama was shot twice in the head, while unarmed, and his body dumped into a sea.

And Sadam killed many more innocent people than Osama.

[cinder]

Regarding your last sentence...

But the American people don't care about HIS people, only ours. It goes back to what I saying with this being so hard to swallow. It makes a thinking person think.

His body was dumped in the sea, b/c no one wanted him.

[refurbmike]

Regarding your last sentence...

But the American people don't care about HIS people, only ours. It goes back to what I saying with this being so hard to swallow. It makes a thinking person think.

Indeed. And again, it makes this less about justice and more about revenge.

His body was dumped in the sea, b/c no one wanted him.

I don't mind it being dumped at sea. Unfortunately, it just fuels the conspiracy fire. It's very unsettling and is contrary to the transparency of Sadam's death.

[cinder]

I don't mind it being dumped at sea. Unfortunately, it just fuels the conspiracy fire. It's very unsettling and is contrary to the transparency of Sadam's death.

It's not unsettling to me. They had the body, they were transporting the body on the ship...transporting it to wherever. I figure the scene went down as such...loaded the body onto the ship, started making calls to various locations that might "want" him. No one wants him, we can't take him back, but per Muslim tradition, he's to be laid to rest within 24 hours. But wait, you're in the middle of the ocean, and days away from land. What do you do? It raises the slightest of hackles, sure....but not enough to be jumping onboard with the conspiracy theorists.

[refurbmike]

I don't think it was that uncoordinated. The body went from a chopper, to a plane, to the boat - a boat which was sitting over the deepest part of the Arabian Sea the whole time. His disposal was clearly thought ahead.

As I said, you compare it against Sadam's capture and death and it seems less transparent.

We had pictures of the capture of Sadam - during the actual event;
there's video footage of his trial;
there's video footage of his execution.

There's little question as to Sadam's fate.

With bin Laden...
There's a video of a bloody, empty room;
the a story about what happened has changed constantly;
the only eye-witnesses have been sworn to secrecy;
the photos of his death are confidential;
and conveniently, the body which has seen no public inspection, has been dumped in the ocean.

While I think he's dead, I don't have to stretch my mind to appreciate the conspiracy theorists' claims.

[Sir_Cliff]

I think the difference with Saddam was that he was a disgraced ex-dictator who few would mourn. It was relatively easy to put him on trial and have him executed because even the insurgency in Iraq was never based around a cult of Saddam. Osama was the symbolic leader of a group of religious fanatics waging a suicidal war against the west. Any trial and any grave would have probably done more to encourage attacks and add propaganda for Al Qaeda than a quick execution and burial at sea.

I do tend to agree this was all planned out. I doubt the US wanted an Osama Bin Laden tomb to be constructed anywhere in the world and I have a feeling the Obama administration would have copped a lot of criticism for allowing that. On that note, do you remember the outcry about bringing Guantanamo detanees to the US for trial to allow them due process and the risk that would pose? As for the conspiracy theorists, they could have paraded his dead body through the streets of Manhattan and they would still have a million theories backed up by "evidence" that it was all staged.

All of this does test many of the fundamental principles of western values of the rule of law and I agree that it is a very difficult issue to grapple with ethically. That said, I'm more concerned about drone attacks that routinely kill dozens of innocent civilians in Pakistan and Afghanistan than I am about Osama Bin Laden's fate.

[blackforest]

The important thing is they have achieved to upset the terrorist group, although the fight is definitely not over, it'll be quiet for a while and they can all re-group and America can sleep soundly.

[refurbmike]

Well, since there hasn't been much discussion going on in this side of the forum, I'll open this can of worms back up - based on recent news:

Bin Laden WAS NOT buried at sea, but flown to the U.S. for cremation at secret location, claims intelligence boss in leaked email

Osama bin Laden WAS NOT buried at sea, but flown to US for cremation, leaked emails reveal | Mail Online

I wonder if there's any truth to this and how it will turn up.